WEBVTT 00:00:05.000 --> 00:00:07.321 You can find all the episodes of 00:00:07.321 --> 00:00:08.081 this podcast in the 00:00:08.081 --> 00:00:10.101 ARD audio library and everywhere 00:00:10.101 --> 00:00:11.720 there are podcasts. 00:00:15.350 --> 00:00:17.351 Kosti will be fitting in Romania 00:00:17.351 --> 00:00:19.610 in September 2021. 00:00:19.970 --> 00:00:21.731 A month later, Natalie Di 00:00:21.731 --> 00:00:23.450 Viluzza left. 00:00:24.310 --> 00:00:25.771 She goes up with several 00:00:25.771 --> 00:00:27.231 other young women in a 00:00:27.231 --> 00:00:29.170 silver who drives 00:00:29.870 --> 00:00:32.371 you, that’s just 00:00:32.371 --> 00:00:34.051 any people from school, 00:00:34.051 --> 00:00:36.570 so Romanians somehow. 00:00:36.570 --> 00:00:37.351 For me, it was 00:00:37.351 --> 00:00:38.750 actually a couple. 00:00:38.750 --> 00:00:39.911 So it was a guy with his 00:00:39.911 --> 00:00:41.411 girlfriend. 00:00:41.790 --> 00:00:43.091 They were normal people, 00:00:43.091 --> 00:00:46.050 so absolutely nice. 00:00:46.750 --> 00:00:48.130 The mood is good. 00:00:48.130 --> 00:00:50.090 Everyone is totally excited. 00:00:50.210 --> 00:00:52.470 Will you really meet your guru? 00:00:52.830 --> 00:00:55.630 And if so, what will happen? 00:00:56.070 --> 00:00:58.211 Some other girls have 00:00:58.211 --> 00:01:00.030 been with me. 00:01:00.250 --> 00:01:01.631 This group dynamic had 00:01:01.631 --> 00:01:05.490 helped not to completely erase. 00:01:06.840 --> 00:01:08.001 Nathalie and the other 00:01:08.001 --> 00:01:09.960 women know just so much. 00:01:10.100 --> 00:01:11.821 Go to Paris or somewhere 00:01:11.821 --> 00:01:13.580 nearby. 00:01:13.580 --> 00:01:16.140 Gregoriam Bivoularou is stopping because 00:01:16.140 --> 00:01:17.501 the authorities are wrongly 00:01:17.501 --> 00:01:19.740 pursuing him, they think. 00:01:20.160 --> 00:01:21.881 They go through, for two days, 00:01:21.881 --> 00:01:24.041 without long breaks. 00:01:24.041 --> 00:01:26.921 And then, by noon, they stop, 00:01:26.921 --> 00:01:29.381 somewhere near Paris, at a 00:01:29.381 --> 00:01:29.581 stinking 00:01:29.581 --> 00:01:32.360 supermarket parking lot. 00:01:33.240 --> 00:01:34.741 Nathalie goes out, stretches 00:01:34.741 --> 00:01:36.841 through and watches people pushing 00:01:36.841 --> 00:01:38.421 their shopping carts from 00:01:38.421 --> 00:01:40.040 A to B here. 00:01:40.420 --> 00:01:41.901 Then the next driver 00:01:41.901 --> 00:01:43.580 comes to you. 00:01:43.680 --> 00:01:45.141 The women get into the car 00:01:45.141 --> 00:01:46.200 with him. 00:01:46.200 --> 00:01:47.681 Then we are in another 00:01:47.681 --> 00:01:50.100 car, also again a Romanian, 00:01:50.100 --> 00:01:51.661 who drove us and he then 00:01:51.661 --> 00:01:52.381 just gave 00:01:52.381 --> 00:01:53.581 us these sunglasses 00:01:53.581 --> 00:01:54.861 and these hats, so that 00:01:54.861 --> 00:01:56.121 so distributed and 00:01:56.121 --> 00:01:57.160 said so, yes put 00:01:57.160 --> 00:01:58.740 them all on now. 00:01:59.800 --> 00:02:04.430 How was this justified? Not at all. 00:02:05.510 --> 00:02:06.851 So that’s the thing, 00:02:06.851 --> 00:02:08.331 because there’s always 00:02:08.331 --> 00:02:10.511 nothing justified, you 00:02:10.511 --> 00:02:11.771 just get out of this, 00:02:11.771 --> 00:02:13.271 so from 00:02:13.490 --> 00:02:15.191 that idea that you can 00:02:15.191 --> 00:02:17.090 ask, you know? 00:02:17.090 --> 00:02:18.631 So I just did not question anything 00:02:18.631 --> 00:02:19.330 anymore. 00:02:19.330 --> 00:02:20.351 So never was where I said, 00:02:20.351 --> 00:02:22.050 yes, why do we do it now? 00:02:22.270 --> 00:02:23.491 Because you just learned, when 00:02:23.491 --> 00:02:24.871 you asked questions at 00:02:24.871 --> 00:02:25.710 the beginning, it is 00:02:25.710 --> 00:02:26.731 always so, yes, you learn later, 00:02:26.731 --> 00:02:29.690 you learn later, you don’ 00:02:29.870 --> 00:02:31.751 t understand yet, you know? 00:02:31.751 --> 00:02:32.351 And then you just 00:02:32.351 --> 00:02:33.771 get out of that thing, 00:02:33.771 --> 00:02:34.171 I can ask 00:02:34.171 --> 00:02:35.511 questions and then 00:02:35.511 --> 00:02:36.131 you just take 00:02:36.131 --> 00:02:37.610 them. 00:02:37.610 --> 00:02:39.131 So Nathalie put on the sunglasses 00:02:39.131 --> 00:02:40.950 and the fisher hat. 00:02:40.950 --> 00:02:43.110 And you go. 00:02:47.220 --> 00:02:48.861 About 15 years ago, another woman 00:02:48.861 --> 00:02:50.561 experienced almost exactly 00:02:50.561 --> 00:02:51.880 the same. 00:02:51.880 --> 00:02:53.241 By car, by parking 00:02:53.241 --> 00:02:55.000 somewhere near Paris. 00:02:55.580 --> 00:02:57.220 We call her Eva. 00:02:57.520 --> 00:02:58.780 You don’t know them 00:02:58.780 --> 00:03:00.121 yet, but we met them 00:03:00.121 --> 00:03:01.141 early in our research 00:03:01.141 --> 00:03:03.000 in Munich. 00:03:03.320 --> 00:03:03.981 She is the 00:03:03.981 --> 00:03:05.341 soul-catcher listener from 00:03:05.341 --> 00:03:07.121 Episode 1, who gave us the 00:03:07.121 --> 00:03:09.480 tip with the yoga movement. 00:03:10.080 --> 00:03:11.841 She hesitated for a while. 00:03:11.841 --> 00:03:13.900 But then she said, okay, 00:03:13.900 --> 00:03:15.221 I’ll be interviewed by 00:03:15.221 --> 00:03:16.801 you, but you have to 00:03:16.801 --> 00:03:18.380 change my voice. 00:03:18.620 --> 00:03:20.920 We did that with Ki. 00:03:21.560 --> 00:03:23.461 Eva tells how she and 00:03:23.461 --> 00:03:25.101 others left the yoga 00:03:25.101 --> 00:03:27.200 school in Munich. 00:03:27.480 --> 00:03:29.721 From Olympia-Centrum by 00:03:29.721 --> 00:03:32.121 car to Paris. Then when we 00:03:32.121 --> 00:03:34.080 arrived in Paris, I was 00:03:34.080 --> 00:03:35.481 carried like a commodity 00:03:35.481 --> 00:03:37.881 in a parking lot from 00:03:37.881 --> 00:03:39.981 one car to another. 00:03:39.981 --> 00:03:42.360 Eva and Nathalie don’t know each other. 00:03:42.360 --> 00:03:44.420 They never spoke to each other. 00:03:44.760 --> 00:03:45.901 But their stories about 00:03:45.901 --> 00:03:48.280 Paris are very similar. 00:03:48.840 --> 00:03:51.261 From that moment on, I had to 00:03:51.261 --> 00:03:56.240 put on a hat and a eyeband that 00:03:56.240 --> 00:03:58.660 I don’t know where it’s going. 00:03:59.520 --> 00:04:00.381 And most of all, I had to 00:04:00.381 --> 00:04:01.440 get away from 00:04:01.440 --> 00:04:02.900 the man I trusted there 00:04:02.900 --> 00:04:05.161 in a different car to 00:04:05.161 --> 00:04:06.900 someone strange. 00:04:08.100 --> 00:04:10.400 And yet, Eva is still in. 00:04:10.400 --> 00:04:11.841 It was a very bad moment 00:04:11.841 --> 00:04:12.520 for me. 00:04:12.520 --> 00:04:13.561 I was totally overtaken 00:04:13.561 --> 00:04:16.220 and felt helpless. 00:04:16.720 --> 00:04:18.441 Eva and Nathalie, they 00:04:18.441 --> 00:04:19.780 both do not know 00:04:19.780 --> 00:04:21.021 where the driver 00:04:21.021 --> 00:04:22.520 took them. 00:04:22.520 --> 00:04:23.381 Of course, you could see 00:04:23.381 --> 00:04:24.540 nothing anymore. 00:04:24.540 --> 00:04:25.781 Then we stopped in that first 00:04:25.781 --> 00:04:27.580 house, where all the 00:04:27.640 --> 00:04:29.361 girls who went to him 00:04:29.361 --> 00:04:31.640 always waited. 00:04:33.200 --> 00:04:34.061 I have made a different 00:04:34.061 --> 00:04:36.200 decision, it is a huge house. 00:04:36.200 --> 00:04:38.001 And there is a pool, and there 00:04:38.001 --> 00:04:39.161 are sky beds, and everything 00:04:39.161 --> 00:04:40.941 is of silk, and we are 00:04:40.941 --> 00:04:42.281 all in very airy 00:04:42.281 --> 00:04:43.480 clothes. 00:04:43.480 --> 00:04:45.101 It’s hippie, yes, and everyone has 00:04:45.101 --> 00:04:46.860 flowers in their hair. 00:04:48.700 --> 00:04:49.741 I know we arrived in the 00:04:49.741 --> 00:04:51.300 underground garage. 00:04:51.300 --> 00:04:52.941 It was a classic Paris 00:04:52.941 --> 00:04:54.960 high-rise complex. 00:04:54.960 --> 00:04:56.061 In an elevator we are 00:04:56.061 --> 00:04:58.461 riding up straight, very 00:04:58.461 --> 00:04:59.961 high floor. 00:05:00.420 --> 00:05:02.421 I had to give up my cell 00:05:02.421 --> 00:05:04.740 phone at the entrance. 00:05:05.500 --> 00:05:07.421 No one is forcing them to leave 00:05:07.421 --> 00:05:09.480 their phones in the apartment. 00:05:09.620 --> 00:05:11.081 But they will be advised. 00:05:11.081 --> 00:05:12.901 Electric devices are 00:05:12.901 --> 00:05:14.620 bad for vibrations. 00:05:15.080 --> 00:05:15.961 They are all wrapped 00:05:15.961 --> 00:05:17.880 in alufolia. 00:05:18.240 --> 00:05:19.101 That they cannot 00:05:19.101 --> 00:05:20.601 be ordered or whatever. 00:05:23.500 --> 00:05:25.561 Nathalie and Eva also give away 00:05:25.561 --> 00:05:27.140 their wallets. 00:05:27.260 --> 00:05:28.760 and their passports. 00:05:28.860 --> 00:05:30.600 I was in this apartment, I wanted 00:05:30.600 --> 00:05:33.060 to immediately get out backwards. 00:05:33.060 --> 00:05:35.500 Everything in me was up, no, 00:05:35.500 --> 00:05:37.040 it doesn’t work. 00:05:37.260 --> 00:05:39.160 I have to leave here immediately. 00:05:39.160 --> 00:05:40.121 I really had such 00:05:40.121 --> 00:05:42.060 a panic attack. 00:05:52.340 --> 00:05:55.760 This is Soulfanger, Toxic 00:05:56.700 --> 00:06:00.301 Tantra, a podcast by Christiane 00:06:00.301 --> 00:06:01.861 Havranek and me Katja 00:06:01.861 --> 00:06:03.700 Peisen-Petersen. 00:06:06.380 --> 00:06:09.640 Episode 5, in the case when 00:06:12.461 --> 00:06:14.181 Eva comes into the apartment, 00:06:14.181 --> 00:06:16.400 then she looks mostly much naked 00:06:16.400 --> 00:06:18.940 It was all full of women, about 00:06:18.940 --> 00:06:20.540 which many women. 00:06:20.560 --> 00:06:21.981 They are waiting for a meeting 00:06:21.981 --> 00:06:23.100 with their guru. 00:06:23.100 --> 00:06:24.640 It was completely dark, 00:06:24.640 --> 00:06:25.680 I know. 00:06:25.680 --> 00:06:26.741 They had a lot 00:06:26.741 --> 00:06:28.520 of windows. 00:06:29.240 --> 00:06:30.820 So that no one can 00:06:30.820 --> 00:06:32.360 see, I know. 00:06:32.920 --> 00:06:34.001 I went in all directions, but 00:06:34.001 --> 00:06:35.501 in the directions 00:06:35.820 --> 00:06:37.501 where other houses could 00:06:37.501 --> 00:06:39.140 have had insight. 00:06:39.500 --> 00:06:40.561 They only saw half- 00:06:40.561 --> 00:06:42.200 sized women. 00:06:42.700 --> 00:06:45.461 There are a couple of girls, 00:06:45.461 --> 00:06:47.860 five or six, who live there. 00:06:47.860 --> 00:06:49.900 They organize it all. 00:06:50.340 --> 00:06:53.640 The old rabbits, a little bit, 00:06:54.500 --> 00:06:56.641 which did not give us 00:06:56.641 --> 00:06:57.980 so much attention. 00:06:57.980 --> 00:06:59.221 I think they didn’t think it 00:06:59.221 --> 00:07:00.880 was so much of a bit of a bit 00:07:00.880 --> 00:07:01.801 that all these young skirts 00:07:01.801 --> 00:07:02.880 were there. 00:07:02.880 --> 00:07:04.260 Old rabbits, old women. 00:07:04.260 --> 00:07:05.660 All the women. 00:07:05.660 --> 00:07:07.200 The men just carried us 00:07:07.200 --> 00:07:09.620 and went there. 00:07:10.000 --> 00:07:11.941 These women, these are the 00:07:11.941 --> 00:07:14.081 assistants, they cook, they make 00:07:14.081 --> 00:07:15.941 the announcement and also show 00:07:15.941 --> 00:07:17.441 them the apartment. 00:07:18.480 --> 00:07:21.060 Eva gives us the basic drawing. 00:07:21.340 --> 00:07:22.980 So let’s do so now. 00:07:23.080 --> 00:07:24.141 So it almost went in and 00:07:24.141 --> 00:07:27.221 then there was the kitchen, 00:07:27.221 --> 00:07:32.620 a large bedroom. 00:07:33.640 --> 00:07:35.161 Evers descriptions are similar to those 00:07:35.161 --> 00:07:36.300 of Nathalie. 00:07:36.300 --> 00:07:36.901 So, and then a little 00:07:36.901 --> 00:07:38.001 further out was the 00:07:38.001 --> 00:07:39.240 small bedroom. 00:07:39.240 --> 00:07:40.921 Maybe 75 square meters or 00:07:40.921 --> 00:07:41.700 something. 00:07:41.700 --> 00:07:43.500 Yes, come to go. 00:07:43.500 --> 00:07:45.380 And there were, how many were we? 00:07:45.380 --> 00:07:45.901 We had to put the mattresses 00:07:45.901 --> 00:07:48.300 up on the walls in the day to 00:07:48.300 --> 00:07:49.541 make room for us, and 00:07:49.541 --> 00:07:50.940 then down again. 00:07:50.940 --> 00:07:52.161 There are usually 10 people 00:07:52.161 --> 00:07:54.900 going through, who 00:07:54.900 --> 00:07:56.321 stop coming, see him 00:07:56.321 --> 00:07:57.821 and then go home. 00:07:58.240 --> 00:07:59.261 And then you stop there. 00:07:59.261 --> 00:08:00.800 So there you then 00:08:00.800 --> 00:08:02.421 sleep in a room with several 00:08:02.421 --> 00:08:03.980 other girls. 00:08:04.600 --> 00:08:05.721 So closed with so many 00:08:05.721 --> 00:08:07.301 people and so that was 00:08:07.301 --> 00:08:09.020 simply the danger of it. 00:08:09.180 --> 00:08:10.881 Boah, I could hardly 00:08:10.881 --> 00:08:12.381 athlete there. 00:08:12.760 --> 00:08:14.780 And that was so dirty, that was 00:08:14.780 --> 00:08:17.561 so disgusting, and that was so 00:08:17.561 --> 00:08:18.801 tight, and that 00:08:18.801 --> 00:08:21.341 was so anything other than 00:08:21.341 --> 00:08:23.341 spiritual and sacred, and 00:08:23.341 --> 00:08:29.340 beautiful and elevating. Then you wait 00:08:32.510 --> 00:08:34.291 for the waiting area to meet 00:08:34.291 --> 00:08:35.690 with her Guru. 00:08:35.690 --> 00:08:37.390 But Bivolaru is not there. 00:08:37.390 --> 00:08:39.410 He lives in a completely different place. 00:08:39.450 --> 00:08:41.590 Only a handful of people know it. 00:08:41.930 --> 00:08:43.431 The women are brought to him 00:08:43.431 --> 00:08:45.450 individually or in small groups. 00:08:45.510 --> 00:08:46.751 How long you will have to wait 00:08:46.751 --> 00:08:48.390 for this moment, 00:08:48.390 --> 00:08:49.590 you do not know. 00:08:49.590 --> 00:08:52.170 What did you do all day? 00:08:54.390 --> 00:08:57.071 So yoga or you read or 00:08:57.071 --> 00:09:00.570 watch porn for hours. 00:09:01.350 --> 00:09:02.511 So any porn he has chosen, 00:09:02.511 --> 00:09:03.690 where he says the women 00:09:03.690 --> 00:09:05.831 in these films have somehow 00:09:05.831 --> 00:09:07.811 a very great state of shakti, 00:09:07.811 --> 00:09:09.511 so are just as he likes 00:09:09.511 --> 00:09:11.571 to think that and that we 00:09:11.571 --> 00:09:13.471 have to give ourselves 00:09:13.471 --> 00:09:14.171 a stop for hours 00:09:14.171 --> 00:09:16.990 and that is all these movies, 00:09:17.530 --> 00:09:18.751 which we get 00:09:18.751 --> 00:09:20.251 as a gift. 00:09:21.690 --> 00:09:22.511 I remember such a 00:09:22.511 --> 00:09:23.691 strange ritual 00:09:23.691 --> 00:09:24.710 we did. 00:09:24.710 --> 00:09:26.131 Well, there was one, that 00:09:26.131 --> 00:09:27.411 fell so, then somehow 00:09:27.411 --> 00:09:28.591 one lay naked and we were 00:09:28.591 --> 00:09:29.191 allowed 00:09:29.191 --> 00:09:31.511 to touch them and 00:09:31.511 --> 00:09:34.691 then, I don’t know what 00:09:34.691 --> 00:09:34.990 the meaning 00:09:34.990 --> 00:09:37.550 of the whole was. 00:09:37.550 --> 00:09:38.451 Probably just a sexual, 00:09:38.451 --> 00:09:39.011 half-generating 00:09:39.011 --> 00:09:40.491 bandage for the guru 00:09:40.491 --> 00:09:42.630 to be totally uplifted. 00:09:42.630 --> 00:09:43.630 I do not know. 00:09:43.630 --> 00:09:44.371 And I somehow touched them 00:09:44.371 --> 00:09:45.611 with feathers or something 00:09:45.611 --> 00:09:49.271 on them and made such 00:09:49.271 --> 00:09:50.310 a thing. 00:09:50.310 --> 00:09:51.191 A little like a sexual 00:09:51.191 --> 00:09:53.131 teasing, that was 00:09:53.131 --> 00:09:54.631 a bit. 00:09:57.300 --> 00:09:59.301 Eva still asks herself today 00:09:59.301 --> 00:10:00.421 how she has landed 00:10:00.421 --> 00:10:02.000 in this apartment? 00:10:02.100 --> 00:10:04.201 Her experiences were about 15 years 00:10:04.201 --> 00:10:06.001 ago, she is now living a completely 00:10:06.001 --> 00:10:07.400 different life. 00:10:07.400 --> 00:10:09.160 She has family, children. 00:10:09.320 --> 00:10:10.561 She has hardly told anyone 00:10:10.561 --> 00:10:12.001 what happened in 00:10:12.001 --> 00:10:13.300 Paris. 00:10:13.300 --> 00:10:14.940 It seems to be difficult for her. 00:10:15.020 --> 00:10:16.641 So I am, I am a educated, 00:10:16.641 --> 00:10:17.881 intelligent 00:10:17.881 --> 00:10:20.420 woman. 00:10:21.060 --> 00:10:23.301 How can this actually 00:10:23.301 --> 00:10:24.020 happen to me? 00:10:24.020 --> 00:10:26.341 How can I get so involved 00:10:26.341 --> 00:10:27.521 and participate in 00:10:27.521 --> 00:10:29.021 all this? 00:10:29.900 --> 00:10:31.021 How stupid. 00:10:31.021 --> 00:10:32.301 And at the same time, I 00:10:32.301 --> 00:10:34.221 now know how much manipulation 00:10:34.221 --> 00:10:35.740 was behind it. 00:10:36.040 --> 00:10:37.521 So, how they are 00:10:37.521 --> 00:10:39.400 manipulating. 00:10:39.880 --> 00:10:41.561 We will learn more about 00:10:41.561 --> 00:10:43.140 how this can happen 00:10:43.140 --> 00:10:44.621 to one later from a psychotherapist. 00:10:44.621 --> 00:10:46.540 00:10:46.540 --> 00:10:47.921 But just before this dynamic, Eva 00:10:47.921 --> 00:10:49.180 wants to warn that 00:10:49.180 --> 00:10:50.821 others are drawn into the same 00:10:50.821 --> 00:10:52.340 way as her. 00:10:52.400 --> 00:10:54.160 Young women especially. 00:10:54.540 --> 00:10:56.380 She also started harmlessly when 00:10:56.380 --> 00:10:57.721 she took yoga classes at 00:10:57.721 --> 00:10:58.581 the German Academy 00:10:58.581 --> 00:11:00.401 for Traditional Yoga, shortly 00:11:00.401 --> 00:11:02.000 Dati, in Munich. 00:11:02.000 --> 00:11:04.460 She is in the early 20s, a student. 00:11:04.740 --> 00:11:05.661 And that’s a bit of the 00:11:05.661 --> 00:11:06.340 promise, I’ve 00:11:06.340 --> 00:11:08.360 at least read out, that you will 00:11:08.360 --> 00:11:10.601 experience a sacred 00:11:10.601 --> 00:11:11.901 sexuality with 00:11:11.901 --> 00:11:13.861 it, that is, a divine one, 00:11:13.861 --> 00:11:14.720 a connection 00:11:14.720 --> 00:11:17.000 to the divine one. 00:11:17.000 --> 00:11:18.421 So through the sexual act 00:11:18.421 --> 00:11:19.540 you manage to 00:11:19.540 --> 00:11:20.881 move a divine sphere 00:11:20.881 --> 00:11:22.280 you, so. 00:11:22.280 --> 00:11:24.180 And I found this extremely fascinating 00:11:24.180 --> 00:11:25.101 because I was just an extreme 00:11:25.101 --> 00:11:26.501 seeking person in 00:11:26.501 --> 00:11:28.860 terms of sexuality. 00:11:29.080 --> 00:11:29.921 What I was looking for was 00:11:29.921 --> 00:11:31.441 closeness, love and 00:11:31.441 --> 00:11:33.300 connection. 00:11:33.580 --> 00:11:34.321 And somehow the idea 00:11:34.321 --> 00:11:35.701 was there, maybe I’ 00:11:35.701 --> 00:11:38.161 ll learn to connect 00:11:38.161 --> 00:11:40.180 and unite that. 00:11:40.180 --> 00:11:41.480 So so. 00:11:41.480 --> 00:11:43.300 So somehow good, healthy, 00:11:43.300 --> 00:11:44.920 holy sexuality. 00:11:46.390 --> 00:11:48.031 And that’s why Eva is not only 00:11:48.031 --> 00:11:49.611 doing classical yoga, but soon 00:11:49.611 --> 00:11:50.391 also a Tantra 00:11:50.391 --> 00:11:52.490 Yoga course at Dati. 00:11:52.590 --> 00:11:55.050 Everyone was happy, 00:11:55.050 --> 00:11:56.230 warm, charged. 00:11:56.230 --> 00:11:56.851 This is the same as the 00:11:56.851 --> 00:11:57.710 yoga community, 00:11:57.710 --> 00:11:58.831 that is like a 00:11:58.831 --> 00:12:00.710 hippie-happy family. 00:12:01.050 --> 00:12:02.150 Everyone has a lot of love, 00:12:02.150 --> 00:12:03.470 insanely much physical contact, hugs, 00:12:03.470 --> 00:12:05.490 closeness. 00:12:05.490 --> 00:12:06.591 Of course, it was something 00:12:06.591 --> 00:12:08.091 very warm. 00:12:14.020 --> 00:12:15.441 We meet with Eva in the evening 00:12:15.441 --> 00:12:17.480 in the city centre of Munich. 00:12:17.640 --> 00:12:18.961 We sit on a mat on the isophone, 00:12:18.961 --> 00:12:21.080 talk, and Eva spontaneously 00:12:21.120 --> 00:12:22.821 introduces us to some yoga 00:12:22.821 --> 00:12:24.360 exercises she learned 00:12:24.360 --> 00:12:25.621 at school at the 00:12:25.621 --> 00:12:27.120 time. 00:12:27.120 --> 00:12:29.181 There is a way to stimulate 00:12:29.181 --> 00:12:33.220 the sexual chakra. 00:12:33.500 --> 00:12:34.920 I then felt things. 00:12:34.920 --> 00:12:36.301 I really felt like 00:12:36.301 --> 00:12:38.641 a storage of my 00:12:38.641 --> 00:12:40.620 sexual energy. 00:12:40.940 --> 00:12:42.161 Or I still know, once in 00:12:42.161 --> 00:12:44.461 yoga lessons I didn’t go 00:12:44.461 --> 00:12:45.301 well and then I did the 00:12:45.301 --> 00:12:46.961 Kotra, so that opens your 00:12:46.961 --> 00:12:48.621 heart chakra and I started 00:12:48.621 --> 00:12:49.401 crying for it and 00:12:49.401 --> 00:12:51.521 that’s so experiences 00:12:51.521 --> 00:12:52.761 that then sum up and 00:12:52.761 --> 00:12:54.900 then starts that 00:12:55.280 --> 00:12:57.921 depends on you or 00:12:57.921 --> 00:12:59.620 that I believed then. 00:12:59.620 --> 00:13:00.480 by Krass. 00:13:00.480 --> 00:13:03.520 See, it is true, it must happen. 00:13:03.600 --> 00:13:05.620 Eva is doing more yoga, more 00:13:05.620 --> 00:13:06.821 and more tantra, 00:13:06.821 --> 00:13:09.521 and learning about interesting 00:13:09.521 --> 00:13:10.820 rituals. 00:13:10.820 --> 00:13:11.721 Then there are all these 00:13:11.721 --> 00:13:14.160 cleaning rituals, what 00:13:14.440 --> 00:13:16.021 to brush your teeth with and 00:13:16.021 --> 00:13:18.500 how you feel your stomach. 00:13:18.800 --> 00:13:21.121 I always thought I would 00:13:21.121 --> 00:13:22.681 definitely swallow the water 00:13:22.681 --> 00:13:23.221 down and then 00:13:23.221 --> 00:13:24.081 do this strange rolling 00:13:24.081 --> 00:13:25.281 exercise and then get 00:13:25.281 --> 00:13:26.741 it all out again so you’ 00:13:26.741 --> 00:13:27.940 re cleaned up. 00:13:27.940 --> 00:13:29.520 To be a shit or what? 00:13:29.520 --> 00:13:30.520 They feel that, of course, if 00:13:30.520 --> 00:13:31.420 they do this often, 00:13:31.420 --> 00:13:32.361 not as a drizzle, because 00:13:32.361 --> 00:13:35.361 it is just such a cleansing ritual 00:13:35.361 --> 00:13:36.441 and I found it so, I told 00:13:36.441 --> 00:13:37.401 them, so today it is 00:13:37.401 --> 00:13:40.641 so unnatural, I find 00:13:40.641 --> 00:13:43.060 it very strange, honestly. 00:13:43.060 --> 00:13:44.501 But then there is such 00:13:44.501 --> 00:13:46.160 a small point in me that 00:13:46.160 --> 00:13:47.400 so wants to hide, 00:13:47.400 --> 00:13:49.240 maybe that’s all true. 00:13:49.520 --> 00:13:51.240 Maybe there is one real 00:13:51.240 --> 00:13:53.141 and now be not so cynical, 00:13:53.141 --> 00:13:54.701 now let yourself somehow 00:13:54.701 --> 00:13:56.521 buy in and maybe you 00:13:56.521 --> 00:13:57.481 discover something else, 00:13:57.481 --> 00:13:58.221 maybe you are surprised." 00:13:58.221 --> 00:13:59.940 Evans gradually 00:14:00.290 --> 00:14:02.311 got into 00:14:02.311 --> 00:14:04.010 it. 00:14:04.010 --> 00:14:05.831 What attracts her most is the prospect 00:14:05.831 --> 00:14:08.090 of sexual fulfillment. 00:14:08.090 --> 00:14:09.371 She even begins an affair with 00:14:09.371 --> 00:14:11.231 her Tantra teacher, which begins 00:14:11.231 --> 00:14:12.731 harmlessly, but the teacher 00:14:12.731 --> 00:14:14.151 knows Gregorian Bivoularou, 00:14:14.151 --> 00:14:16.410 Greig personally. 00:14:16.410 --> 00:14:18.530 And at some point he says, 00:14:18.530 --> 00:14:20.191 remembering Eva, he can 00:14:20.191 --> 00:14:21.731 arrange a meeting between 00:14:21.731 --> 00:14:23.690 her and Greig. 00:14:23.690 --> 00:14:24.631 If one is leading 00:14:24.631 --> 00:14:26.911 such a community and everyone 00:14:26.911 --> 00:14:29.951 is so encouraged and so 00:14:29.951 --> 00:14:32.351 cast, that 00:14:32.351 --> 00:14:33.691 was the idea of a 00:14:33.691 --> 00:14:37.171 wise Buddha resting 00:14:37.171 --> 00:14:38.750 within. 00:14:38.750 --> 00:14:41.071 I thought I would meet 00:14:41.071 --> 00:14:42.071 a super-wise man 00:14:42.071 --> 00:14:43.991 who could ask me anything 00:14:43.991 --> 00:14:45.591 and answer me almost 00:14:45.591 --> 00:14:47.010 anything. 00:14:47.010 --> 00:14:49.090 All the questions I have. 00:14:52.200 --> 00:14:54.141 Before that, I want Eva to 00:14:54.141 --> 00:14:55.840 take a picture of her. 00:14:56.100 --> 00:14:57.061 She doesn’t remember it 00:14:57.061 --> 00:14:57.960 exactly, but she 00:14:57.960 --> 00:14:59.780 thinks it was naked. 00:14:59.780 --> 00:15:01.660 Or just underwear. 00:15:01.660 --> 00:15:03.441 Greig, you know, can 00:15:03.441 --> 00:15:06.240 read your aura. 00:15:06.760 --> 00:15:07.741 I said I am not 00:15:07.741 --> 00:15:09.760 mistaken for whom. 00:15:09.760 --> 00:15:10.881 So I’m stupid, we discussed 00:15:10.881 --> 00:15:11.581 that in this 00:15:11.581 --> 00:15:12.661 Jova group. 00:15:12.661 --> 00:15:15.140 With a few other people, girls. 00:15:15.140 --> 00:15:16.640 No, we do not do that. 00:15:17.020 --> 00:15:18.401 Then the yoga teachers 00:15:18.401 --> 00:15:19.320 laughed, he really 00:15:19.320 --> 00:15:20.361 didn’t need it, so 00:15:20.361 --> 00:15:22.440 really seriously. 00:15:22.900 --> 00:15:24.660 And at some point, this was the point, 00:15:24.660 --> 00:15:25.941 I think a few weeks later, such 00:15:25.941 --> 00:15:28.021 an offer was thrown back 00:15:28.021 --> 00:15:28.700 into the room. 00:15:28.700 --> 00:15:31.180 Oh fuck it, why not, ey? 00:15:31.180 --> 00:15:32.300 What happens, it does not 00:15:32.300 --> 00:15:33.320 matter. 00:15:33.320 --> 00:15:34.800 And I said, yes, Mei, let’ 00:15:34.800 --> 00:15:36.840 s try it out, let’s see if there’ 00:15:36.840 --> 00:15:37.721 s something going on 00:15:37.721 --> 00:15:39.120 with it. 00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:40.481 So Eva gives her Tantra 00:15:40.481 --> 00:15:42.700 teacher a picture of herself. 00:15:42.700 --> 00:15:44.421 He isly suffering from Grigorian 00:15:44.421 --> 00:15:46.680 Bivolaru. 00:15:46.680 --> 00:15:47.801 He then sent me the 00:15:47.801 --> 00:15:50.700 happy message that I 00:15:50.700 --> 00:15:52.060 had an invitation. 00:15:52.060 --> 00:15:53.560 I know exactly the feeling. 00:15:53.560 --> 00:15:56.040 It was such a total shock. 00:15:56.220 --> 00:15:57.101 I honestly had a 00:15:57.101 --> 00:15:59.260 vague idea of what 00:15:59.700 --> 00:16:00.700 it was. 00:16:00.700 --> 00:16:01.800 I have already thought about 00:16:01.800 --> 00:16:04.721 Tantra invitation, Guru-snooping, since 00:16:04.721 --> 00:16:07.900 there is 100% and so an initiation. 00:16:08.120 --> 00:16:11.360 Initiation, again that word. 00:16:11.640 --> 00:16:13.121 Eva tries to extract some 00:16:13.121 --> 00:16:14.301 more information from 00:16:14.301 --> 00:16:15.401 her Tantra teaching 00:16:15.401 --> 00:16:17.460 about this meeting. 00:16:17.460 --> 00:16:18.021 Yes, and what is 00:16:18.021 --> 00:16:20.180 that perverted than there is not, 00:16:20.420 --> 00:16:22.001 because always so completely 00:16:22.001 --> 00:16:23.721 with his yogic, loving 00:16:23.721 --> 00:16:25.780 face expression, that you will see, 00:16:25.780 --> 00:16:28.001 that is pretty and there 00:16:28.001 --> 00:16:29.560 are so many young girls, that 00:16:29.560 --> 00:16:31.101 is so beautiful, you are all there 00:16:31.101 --> 00:16:32.601 And that is a 00:16:32.601 --> 00:16:34.300 beautiful community. 00:16:34.840 --> 00:16:36.521 A mediation to her guru through 00:16:36.521 --> 00:16:38.021 a Tantra teacher from 00:16:38.021 --> 00:16:39.581 the German Academy of Traditional 00:16:39.581 --> 00:16:41.160 Yoga. 00:16:41.240 --> 00:16:42.740 That is how Eva remembers. 00:16:43.280 --> 00:16:45.180 What do the data say about it? 00:16:45.420 --> 00:16:47.620 We will ask you in detail. 00:16:50.750 --> 00:16:52.091 But now back to the apartment 00:16:52.091 --> 00:16:53.810 in Paris. 00:16:54.550 --> 00:16:56.170 Eva is still waiting 00:16:56.170 --> 00:16:58.070 to be left to her Guru. 00:16:58.310 --> 00:16:59.151 I was scared at the 00:16:59.151 --> 00:17:00.811 same time. 00:17:00.811 --> 00:17:03.231 But this curiosity and then 00:17:03.231 --> 00:17:04.270 a crisp feeling, now you 00:17:04.270 --> 00:17:06.811 are here, now you are here, now you 00:17:06.811 --> 00:17:08.171 are here, now let it come 00:17:08.171 --> 00:17:09.111 to pass, now look at 00:17:09.111 --> 00:17:10.531 it, maybe there is really 00:17:10.531 --> 00:17:11.351 a great enlightenment 00:17:11.351 --> 00:17:12.751 waiting for you. 00:17:12.751 --> 00:17:14.150 00:17:14.150 --> 00:17:15.891 Eva and later Nathalie will 00:17:15.891 --> 00:17:16.691 wait for this 00:17:16.691 --> 00:17:18.850 enlightenment for days. 00:17:19.410 --> 00:17:20.851 The other women are ahead 00:17:20.851 --> 00:17:22.951 of you. It was really 00:17:22.951 --> 00:17:24.630 hard for me because 00:17:24.630 --> 00:17:26.491 you stop coming and then 00:17:26.491 --> 00:17:28.631 you tell where you want 00:17:28.631 --> 00:17:30.570 to go home. 00:17:30.570 --> 00:17:32.431 And I had given a certain 00:17:32.431 --> 00:17:33.230 date, which, of 00:17:33.230 --> 00:17:35.731 course, did not interest 00:17:35.731 --> 00:17:37.550 anyone afterwards. 00:17:37.750 --> 00:17:40.391 Then I stood there and 00:17:40.391 --> 00:17:42.551 didn’t know... 00:17:42.551 --> 00:17:43.151 Because you have 00:17:43.151 --> 00:17:44.910 no control at all. 00:17:45.050 --> 00:17:45.951 So when you can go 00:17:45.951 --> 00:17:48.310 home, when you meet him, 00:17:48.390 --> 00:17:49.430 you just don’t know. 00:17:49.430 --> 00:17:52.270 So, it is completely his thing. 00:17:52.810 --> 00:17:53.810 That was difficult. 00:17:53.810 --> 00:17:54.771 Because I was like that, 00:17:54.771 --> 00:17:56.530 what if I was here forever? 00:17:56.910 --> 00:17:58.131 How long did you 00:17:58.131 --> 00:18:00.550 wait until your visit? 00:18:01.230 --> 00:18:02.730 Two weeks. 00:18:03.600 --> 00:18:04.781 I then said after two or 00:18:04.781 --> 00:18:06.201 three days that I can’t 00:18:06.201 --> 00:18:08.060 stay so long and then maybe 00:18:08.060 --> 00:18:09.761 the next day came the explanation. 00:18:09.761 --> 00:18:10.200 00:18:10.200 --> 00:18:10.761 You probably told him that 00:18:10.761 --> 00:18:11.761 there is someone there 00:18:11.761 --> 00:18:13.760 who has to go back now. 00:18:14.220 --> 00:18:15.361 So there was just a 00:18:15.361 --> 00:18:18.021 note that came and then 00:18:18.021 --> 00:18:19.741 there was the next 00:18:19.741 --> 00:18:21.200 name on it. 00:18:21.200 --> 00:18:22.601 What were the feelings 00:18:22.601 --> 00:18:24.400 when the invitation came? 00:18:24.400 --> 00:18:24.961 Oh God. 00:18:24.961 --> 00:18:27.340 I just believe that, oh God. 00:18:28.240 --> 00:18:29.461 And then all these little 00:18:29.461 --> 00:18:31.461 discussions came, what 00:18:31.461 --> 00:18:32.500 happened? 00:18:32.500 --> 00:18:33.141 And he said a little 00:18:33.141 --> 00:18:35.621 bit, exactly what you 00:18:35.621 --> 00:18:37.421 want and said, yes, 00:18:37.421 --> 00:18:38.281 I can just go and talk 00:18:38.281 --> 00:18:39.781 to that. 00:18:40.220 --> 00:18:40.841 And there he always hanged 00:18:40.841 --> 00:18:42.521 like that, yes, you have everything 00:18:42.521 --> 00:18:44.221 you want, that will go well, everything 00:18:44.221 --> 00:18:45.781 will be fine and it will 00:18:45.781 --> 00:18:47.641 now collect exactly 00:18:47.641 --> 00:18:49.900 what you want. 00:18:50.400 --> 00:18:51.261 I was just somehow doing yoga 00:18:51.261 --> 00:18:52.301 again and then just a 00:18:52.301 --> 00:18:53.801 girl there and meant by the 00:18:53.801 --> 00:18:55.061 motto yes you are going 00:18:55.061 --> 00:18:56.860 to him now, you have 00:18:56.860 --> 00:18:57.461 to pack your things 00:18:57.461 --> 00:18:58.961 and so on. 00:18:59.060 --> 00:19:00.181 And then it said yes, 00:19:00.181 --> 00:19:03.021 when my bath came like 00:19:03.021 --> 00:19:04.641 this, now please go shower 00:19:04.641 --> 00:19:06.121 and shave and 00:19:06.121 --> 00:19:07.761 I said why I should 00:19:07.761 --> 00:19:09.341 shower and how I should 00:19:09.341 --> 00:19:11.001 shave, I never shave. 00:19:11.001 --> 00:19:12.501 00:19:12.800 --> 00:19:13.841 So completely raso, who talk 00:19:13.841 --> 00:19:15.041 about completely raso, not 00:19:15.041 --> 00:19:17.060 so ne, I don’t actually do that, 00:19:17.060 --> 00:19:17.841 yes that’s just for 00:19:17.841 --> 00:19:19.780 respect for him. 00:19:19.800 --> 00:19:20.661 I see why, he is not 00:19:20.661 --> 00:19:22.120 naked to why 00:19:22.120 --> 00:19:24.821 should I, do it simply 00:19:24.821 --> 00:19:25.921 and yes, you can decide 00:19:25.921 --> 00:19:27.240 everything then freely, 00:19:27.240 --> 00:19:28.001 but that 00:19:28.001 --> 00:19:29.521 is almost not bad now 00:19:29.521 --> 00:19:31.941 and then somehow came 00:19:31.941 --> 00:19:33.181 in, two girls come, make 00:19:33.181 --> 00:19:34.461 it easy, that is not 00:19:34.461 --> 00:19:36.021 so wild and then I 00:19:36.021 --> 00:19:37.260 actually did it. 00:19:37.260 --> 00:19:38.801 She felt that 00:19:38.801 --> 00:19:40.081 full doctor, which I found 00:19:40.081 --> 00:19:42.340 completely awful. 00:19:49.160 --> 00:19:51.701 Nathalie and Eva, both taken 00:19:51.701 --> 00:19:53.720 by two men in a van, they 00:19:53.720 --> 00:19:55.060 tell. 00:19:55.060 --> 00:19:57.041 Eva is alone, with Nathalie 00:19:57.041 --> 00:19:59.000 still women go with. 00:19:59.380 --> 00:20:00.281 Their eyes are connected 00:20:00.281 --> 00:20:01.781 again. 00:20:01.980 --> 00:20:03.421 Again, they don’t know where 00:20:03.421 --> 00:20:04.921 to take them. 00:20:05.220 --> 00:20:07.920 I mean, it was like 00:20:10.241 --> 00:20:11.141 that, I was my one before, 00:20:11.141 --> 00:20:13.841 I was in the car, so 00:20:13.841 --> 00:20:15.341 I was really 00:20:15.400 --> 00:20:17.900 done somehow. 00:20:18.400 --> 00:20:22.101 So fear, but then, I then 00:20:22.101 --> 00:20:23.341 stopped thinking so after 00:20:23.341 --> 00:20:23.761 that is now, 00:20:23.761 --> 00:20:24.921 because I’m excited 00:20:24.921 --> 00:20:26.221 because it’s my guru 00:20:26.221 --> 00:20:27.900 and so on. 00:20:28.620 --> 00:20:29.561 So that was now, when 00:20:29.561 --> 00:20:30.680 I thought about 00:20:30.680 --> 00:20:31.520 it, when I looked back, 00:20:31.520 --> 00:20:33.000 that was what I did. 00:20:33.000 --> 00:20:33.740 So a little like that, 00:20:33.740 --> 00:20:35.121 okay, it’s my guru, it’ 00:20:35.121 --> 00:20:35.660 s my guru, it’ 00:20:35.660 --> 00:20:36.741 s my guru, not to be afraid, 00:20:36.741 --> 00:20:38.241 not to be afraid. 00:20:38.760 --> 00:20:42.520 Oh God, what was it, so 00:20:42.520 --> 00:20:44.820 what was it that happened? 00:20:49.670 --> 00:20:51.730 Someday the car stops. 00:20:51.890 --> 00:20:53.431 Judging by the smell and 00:20:53.431 --> 00:20:54.331 the noise, Nathalie 00:20:54.331 --> 00:20:55.711 thinks they are in a 00:20:55.711 --> 00:20:57.870 underground garage. 00:20:57.910 --> 00:20:59.571 And then we were also taken out 00:20:59.571 --> 00:21:00.990 of the car, out of the 00:21:00.990 --> 00:21:02.751 underground garage to such 00:21:02.751 --> 00:21:04.630 a staircase, which 00:21:04.630 --> 00:21:05.611 then stops going up 00:21:05.611 --> 00:21:07.610 somehow into the garden. 00:21:07.650 --> 00:21:08.511 This is also where 00:21:08.511 --> 00:21:09.171 we have just taken 00:21:09.171 --> 00:21:10.671 the eye. 00:21:12.270 --> 00:21:14.511 Nathalie is in the back yard 00:21:14.511 --> 00:21:17.250 of an apartment complex. 00:21:17.410 --> 00:21:19.430 Here Bivoularo appears to be staying, in 00:21:19.430 --> 00:21:21.750 an apartment on the ground floor. 00:21:22.870 --> 00:21:26.130 Eva recalls another place. 00:21:26.290 --> 00:21:28.390 She is writing it for us. 00:21:28.530 --> 00:21:31.750 It was a kind of back yard. 00:21:32.170 --> 00:21:34.270 It was much less urban. 00:21:34.270 --> 00:21:36.230 It was such a suburb. 00:21:36.490 --> 00:21:38.310 There was his door. 00:21:38.310 --> 00:21:40.650 It went so high. 00:21:41.070 --> 00:21:42.431 The two men who brought Natalie 00:21:42.431 --> 00:21:43.610 come to the house and 00:21:43.610 --> 00:21:45.630 push against the door of the apartment. 00:21:45.850 --> 00:21:47.610 It is difficult to open. 00:21:47.610 --> 00:21:48.591 This is really tight. 00:21:48.591 --> 00:21:49.890 So really a little like that, 00:21:49.890 --> 00:21:50.371 you open the door like 00:21:50.371 --> 00:21:51.091 that and then you have 00:21:51.091 --> 00:21:53.470 to get stuck in some way. 00:21:53.470 --> 00:21:54.391 And then you stop in 00:21:54.391 --> 00:21:55.751 this corridor, because you 00:21:55.751 --> 00:21:56.731 stop, there is no place 00:21:56.731 --> 00:21:57.690 for you. 00:21:57.690 --> 00:21:58.551 It was completely 00:21:58.551 --> 00:22:00.410 dark, I know. 00:22:00.690 --> 00:22:01.811 One of the two Romanians 00:22:01.811 --> 00:22:03.850 knocks on a room door. 00:22:03.970 --> 00:22:05.790 It takes several minutes. 00:22:06.110 --> 00:22:07.790 Then it will be opened. 00:22:08.310 --> 00:22:09.810 And he stands there. 00:22:11.840 --> 00:22:13.001 When he opened the door, I 00:22:13.001 --> 00:22:14.780 still know how he stood there. 00:22:15.160 --> 00:22:17.560 What was he wearing? A bathing suit. 00:22:17.560 --> 00:22:18.780 He always wore that, 00:22:18.780 --> 00:22:20.480 his coat. 00:22:21.120 --> 00:22:26.340 Lila, and somehow Deden. 00:22:26.340 --> 00:22:27.840 So very fancy. 00:22:28.040 --> 00:22:28.960 So I had thought, when 00:22:28.960 --> 00:22:29.460 I saw him, oh my God, 00:22:29.460 --> 00:22:32.600 this old, unattractive 00:22:34.040 --> 00:22:36.681 man, there I must now 00:22:36.681 --> 00:22:38.740 go, who radiates for me nothing 00:22:38.740 --> 00:22:39.981 but not the breath 00:22:39.981 --> 00:22:43.640 of anything wise or good. 00:22:43.640 --> 00:22:44.581 Alone, as he greeted me, He 00:22:44.581 --> 00:22:45.701 had such a smile on his 00:22:45.701 --> 00:22:47.761 face and I was so nervous 00:22:47.761 --> 00:22:49.561 and then somehow seemingly 00:22:49.561 --> 00:22:50.421 laughed and then he, I still 00:22:50.421 --> 00:22:51.461 know, opened his arms 00:22:51.461 --> 00:22:53.281 and said something in a 00:22:53.281 --> 00:22:56.220 way like, ah, such a beautiful 00:22:56.560 --> 00:22:59.700 smile, you're smiling. 00:23:01.630 --> 00:23:03.490 He is as big as me. 00:23:03.590 --> 00:23:04.870 Okay is. 00:23:04.870 --> 00:23:06.130 Yes, it is not so big. 00:23:06.130 --> 00:23:07.871 It is really old, no. 00:23:07.871 --> 00:23:08.950 So that was also such a thing. 00:23:08.950 --> 00:23:09.531 I didn’t really 00:23:09.531 --> 00:23:11.691 expect it 00:23:11.691 --> 00:23:13.990 to look so old. 00:23:13.990 --> 00:23:14.391 already is. 00:23:14.391 --> 00:23:16.950 Really such an old man. 00:23:19.800 --> 00:23:23.041 Oh, such a beautiful smile, 00:23:23.041 --> 00:23:24.540 you’re smiling. 00:23:24.540 --> 00:23:24.761 And I 00:23:24.761 --> 00:23:26.021 even thought at that moment, 00:23:26.021 --> 00:23:28.061 oh my God, if you were 00:23:28.061 --> 00:23:30.460 really a wise guru, you would 00:23:30.460 --> 00:23:31.341 know that I am not laughing 00:23:31.341 --> 00:23:32.861 joyfully, but doing something 00:23:32.861 --> 00:23:35.160 like that, if you had any 00:23:35.220 --> 00:23:36.221 plan or could read 00:23:36.221 --> 00:23:39.141 any aura or so, you would 00:23:39.141 --> 00:23:40.600 know that I am just 00:23:40.600 --> 00:23:41.401 actually just wanting 00:23:41.401 --> 00:23:42.481 to die of fear. 00:23:42.481 --> 00:23:45.551 No fear, no fear, 00:23:45.551 --> 00:23:47.310 so is it. 00:23:48.250 --> 00:23:49.111 That was the same thing 00:23:49.111 --> 00:23:49.851 when I saw him for 00:23:49.851 --> 00:23:50.650 the first time. 00:23:50.650 --> 00:23:54.030 So it was also so, okay, 00:23:54.190 --> 00:23:56.111 yes, it’s my guru, it’s my 00:23:56.111 --> 00:23:58.030 guru, yay. 00:23:58.550 --> 00:24:00.970 Yes, so it was really, really difficult. 00:24:00.970 --> 00:24:02.311 But even there again, it’s just that pressure 00:24:02.311 --> 00:24:03.591 that’s being so inflated 00:24:03.591 --> 00:24:04.450 into you, so this 00:24:04.450 --> 00:24:05.491 is your guru and this is 00:24:05.491 --> 00:24:07.410 now a mega event, change 00:24:07.750 --> 00:24:09.690 your life here right now. 00:24:10.350 --> 00:24:12.731 You can interpret everything 00:24:12.731 --> 00:24:13.251 that happens 00:24:13.251 --> 00:24:16.451 to you through 00:24:16.451 --> 00:24:19.610 this filter. 00:24:19.610 --> 00:24:21.651 You know where the fear you feel 00:24:21.651 --> 00:24:24.571 is excitement. Somehow and 00:24:24.571 --> 00:24:25.931 it’s so positive and 00:24:25.931 --> 00:24:27.750 it’s just so great 00:24:27.830 --> 00:24:28.671 if it’s actually 00:24:28.671 --> 00:24:29.730 your body. 00:24:29.730 --> 00:24:31.270 What the fuck are we doing? 00:24:34.970 --> 00:24:37.391 He begged me and then I 00:24:37.391 --> 00:24:38.491 was then That was 00:24:38.491 --> 00:24:40.271 the next thing, then 00:24:40.271 --> 00:24:41.091 I thought, oh my God, now 00:24:41.091 --> 00:24:42.071 I am there. 00:24:42.071 --> 00:24:44.050 I don’t know where I am, I don’ 00:24:44.050 --> 00:24:46.910 t have money, I don’t have a cell phone. 00:24:46.930 --> 00:24:47.731 I don’t know when these 00:24:47.731 --> 00:24:49.130 guys will come over us. 00:24:49.130 --> 00:24:50.171 How do they know when they 00:24:50.171 --> 00:24:51.671 will pick me up? 00:24:52.330 --> 00:24:55.670 Super is crash. 00:24:58.030 --> 00:24:59.771 At this point, the 00:24:59.771 --> 00:25:00.931 women’s memories 00:25:00.931 --> 00:25:02.770 differ a little. 00:25:02.930 --> 00:25:04.471 While Eva stands before 00:25:04.471 --> 00:25:06.450 her guru and he mockes her, 00:25:06.450 --> 00:25:07.671 Bivoularo disappears with 00:25:07.671 --> 00:25:09.690 Nathalie back in his bedroom. 00:25:09.690 --> 00:25:11.571 The men who brought her 00:25:11.571 --> 00:25:12.791 and the two other women 00:25:12.791 --> 00:25:13.850 here now lead 00:25:13.850 --> 00:25:15.231 her down the corridor 00:25:15.231 --> 00:25:17.630 to another room. 00:25:17.970 --> 00:25:19.510 It is obscured. 00:25:19.870 --> 00:25:21.411 A roll is attached in front of 00:25:21.411 --> 00:25:22.950 the window, white. 00:25:23.090 --> 00:25:24.431 No one can look out and no one 00:25:24.431 --> 00:25:26.610 can enter, Nathalie remembers. 00:25:27.490 --> 00:25:28.791 Our room, where the girls 00:25:28.791 --> 00:25:32.430 are, is completely closed. 00:25:32.830 --> 00:25:33.810 Everywhere, so really, I’ve 00:25:33.810 --> 00:25:35.310 never seen it, everywhere 00:25:35.470 --> 00:25:37.091 with tents, with all sorts 00:25:37.091 --> 00:25:37.911 of rules. 00:25:37.911 --> 00:25:38.951 What we can do, how we can 00:25:38.951 --> 00:25:40.371 do it, what we cannot do 00:25:40.371 --> 00:25:41.871 and so, so strictly, so 00:25:41.871 --> 00:25:43.011 there is something right 00:25:43.011 --> 00:25:44.770 going on. 00:25:44.770 --> 00:25:45.871 And that we have to be super 00:25:45.871 --> 00:25:48.231 quiet, that with the bathroom, 00:25:48.231 --> 00:25:49.851 that we have to be really 00:25:49.851 --> 00:25:52.350 super, super clean. 00:25:52.750 --> 00:25:53.931 There is a three- 00:25:53.931 --> 00:25:56.250 story bed for the women. 00:25:56.270 --> 00:25:58.011 The bathroom they share with 00:25:58.011 --> 00:25:59.831 Bivularo, who has his room 00:25:59.831 --> 00:26:01.510 right next to it. 00:26:01.770 --> 00:26:02.971 You never see him going 00:26:02.971 --> 00:26:04.891 in, but you see his hair lying 00:26:04.891 --> 00:26:06.171 in the washing pool. 00:26:06.171 --> 00:26:08.031 If he just pulled one 00:26:08.031 --> 00:26:09.290 hair, it didn’t go. 00:26:09.290 --> 00:26:10.550 If his hair was dry, 00:26:10.550 --> 00:26:12.050 it was no problem. 00:26:12.470 --> 00:26:14.230 My hair does not go. 00:26:14.230 --> 00:26:14.971 We also did not wash 00:26:14.971 --> 00:26:16.550 our hair. 00:26:16.690 --> 00:26:17.791 Because there, I think, 00:26:17.791 --> 00:26:20.510 the problem was, if something is clogged, 00:26:20.510 --> 00:26:22.330 you can’t call a clamper. 00:26:23.450 --> 00:26:24.791 One of the men who brought Nathalie 00:26:24.791 --> 00:26:26.070 sits at a small 00:26:26.070 --> 00:26:27.531 foldable table near the 00:26:27.531 --> 00:26:29.790 door of the apartment. 00:26:30.450 --> 00:26:31.551 There are several metal 00:26:31.551 --> 00:26:33.310 bars attached to it, 00:26:33.310 --> 00:26:34.810 Nathalie remembers. 00:26:34.970 --> 00:26:36.131 We can’t get out and 00:26:36.131 --> 00:26:37.431 then you’ll get your 00:26:37.431 --> 00:26:39.090 clothes taken off. 00:26:39.910 --> 00:26:40.611 So they have bathing 00:26:40.611 --> 00:26:41.951 items and so on, but 00:26:41.951 --> 00:26:43.011 we don’t have our 00:26:43.011 --> 00:26:44.351 clothes and that’s why 00:26:44.351 --> 00:26:45.231 it’s so, okay, I 00:26:45.231 --> 00:26:46.151 can’t really go out because 00:26:46.151 --> 00:26:46.911 I don’t have anything 00:26:46.911 --> 00:26:48.411 to wear. 00:26:49.390 --> 00:26:51.390 And even if we had said I want 00:26:51.390 --> 00:26:55.141 to go, that would not have 00:26:55.141 --> 00:26:56.561 just gone so by the motto, 00:26:56.561 --> 00:26:58.040 okay, yes, of course, we 00:26:58.040 --> 00:26:59.540 are not going home now. 00:26:59.560 --> 00:27:00.301 That would have been 00:27:00.301 --> 00:27:02.181 a huge discussion, so after you 00:27:02.181 --> 00:27:04.321 have any demons and what’ 00:27:04.321 --> 00:27:05.380 s going on with you? 00:27:05.380 --> 00:27:06.940 It does not go. 00:27:07.260 --> 00:27:09.480 This is not a topic at all. 00:27:11.160 --> 00:27:12.601 For Natalia, there is only 00:27:12.601 --> 00:27:14.300 one solution. 00:27:14.440 --> 00:27:15.921 She stays with the other 00:27:15.921 --> 00:27:18.660 women in the room assigned to her. 00:27:19.380 --> 00:27:20.480 hours of hours. 00:27:20.480 --> 00:27:22.941 for days. Your food is delivered 00:27:22.941 --> 00:27:24.341 in plastic bottles. 00:27:24.341 --> 00:27:26.341 prepared by the 00:27:26.341 --> 00:27:28.100 other woman. 00:27:28.460 --> 00:27:30.420 A lot of Romanian food because 00:27:30.420 --> 00:27:31.920 he likes it. 00:27:32.100 --> 00:27:33.940 Naturally a vegetarian. 00:27:33.940 --> 00:27:36.541 And then it was the thing, if something 00:27:36.541 --> 00:27:38.181 goes wrong, we have to 00:27:38.181 --> 00:27:39.620 eat it anyway. 00:27:39.620 --> 00:27:40.660 They chose to stop, and 00:27:40.660 --> 00:27:42.680 then they ate that outdated meal. 00:27:42.840 --> 00:27:43.201 As I have 00:27:43.201 --> 00:27:43.721 always said, I just 00:27:43.721 --> 00:27:45.221 don’t do it. 00:27:45.380 --> 00:27:46.420 So you can do it alone. 00:27:46.420 --> 00:27:46.961 They were then, 00:27:46.961 --> 00:27:48.081 boah, I have got a crazy 00:27:48.081 --> 00:27:50.301 spiritual state and it’ 00:27:50.301 --> 00:27:51.681 s all so great because 00:27:51.681 --> 00:27:52.681 it’s so charged with 00:27:52.681 --> 00:27:54.161 its energy and so 00:27:54.161 --> 00:27:57.461 on. You will make the world 00:27:57.461 --> 00:27:59.180 beautiful too. 00:27:59.820 --> 00:28:01.820 That you do not shut up. 00:28:02.700 --> 00:28:04.261 Because everything is darkened in 00:28:04.261 --> 00:28:05.340 her room, Natalie 00:28:05.340 --> 00:28:06.681 loses her sense of time at 00:28:06.681 --> 00:28:08.220 some point. 00:28:08.960 --> 00:28:10.700 No sunlight is there, right? Not at all. 00:28:10.700 --> 00:28:11.940 You cannot go out, no 00:28:11.940 --> 00:28:12.881 sunlight, you stay in your 00:28:12.881 --> 00:28:14.900 room, you are quiet. 00:28:14.900 --> 00:28:16.281 And then you just sit there. 00:28:16.281 --> 00:28:19.601 You do your yoga, read something, 00:28:19.601 --> 00:28:21.320 sleep. 00:28:24.740 --> 00:28:27.400 Nathalie has been out for seven days. 00:28:27.500 --> 00:28:29.560 Then the door opens. 00:28:30.720 --> 00:28:31.941 Gregorian Bivoularo is 00:28:31.941 --> 00:28:34.701 very personally standing there and 00:28:34.701 --> 00:28:36.240 looking at Nathalie. 00:28:36.740 --> 00:28:38.421 He then stopped coming in 00:28:38.421 --> 00:28:40.301 at some point and then meant, 00:28:40.301 --> 00:28:42.420 yes, you can prepare now. 00:28:43.080 --> 00:28:44.941 Nathalie takes a shower, shaves, 00:28:44.941 --> 00:28:47.361 brushes her teeth. 00:28:47.361 --> 00:28:48.481 She follows the instructions 00:28:48.481 --> 00:28:50.441 on the many tents on the 00:28:50.441 --> 00:28:52.340 walls in her room. 00:28:52.840 --> 00:28:55.041 She is excited and waiting 00:28:55.041 --> 00:28:57.260 for her guru’s call. 00:28:57.800 --> 00:28:59.500 But then it was also 00:28:59.500 --> 00:29:00.521 that he did not come 00:29:00.521 --> 00:29:02.120 back for two days. 00:29:04.080 --> 00:29:06.160 What? Oh no. 00:29:06.160 --> 00:29:08.421 I thought it would 00:29:08.421 --> 00:29:09.440 take an hour before 00:29:09.440 --> 00:29:11.280 he came back, no. 00:29:11.280 --> 00:29:12.820 Almost two days. 00:29:12.920 --> 00:29:13.741 Where he simply did 00:29:13.741 --> 00:29:15.241 not come back. 00:29:15.300 --> 00:29:16.841 And then he stopped at some point. 00:29:16.841 --> 00:29:18.340 So it was, okay, now 00:29:18.340 --> 00:29:21.220 it is. Nine days. 00:29:25.670 --> 00:29:27.131 So long Gregoriam Bivularo 00:29:27.131 --> 00:29:29.311 lets Natalie wait in this 00:29:29.311 --> 00:29:30.811 apartment. 00:29:31.110 --> 00:29:32.710 So she remembers. 00:29:32.970 --> 00:29:34.850 Eva is faster. 00:29:35.490 --> 00:29:37.670 She is taken to him alone. 00:29:37.670 --> 00:29:40.130 And she is on her turn immediately. 00:29:40.270 --> 00:29:41.290 What was even more 00:29:41.290 --> 00:29:42.411 rough, on the 00:29:42.411 --> 00:29:43.711 way there I got a 00:29:43.711 --> 00:29:45.470 drink. 00:29:45.570 --> 00:29:47.230 I put them in the water. 00:29:47.750 --> 00:29:49.891 I drank a lot 00:29:49.891 --> 00:29:51.710 of it on the road. 00:29:51.710 --> 00:29:52.131 I then have 00:29:52.131 --> 00:29:53.910 this strange, this 00:29:54.050 --> 00:29:57.551 strange light a little 00:29:57.551 --> 00:29:58.511 bit like I was a 00:29:58.511 --> 00:30:00.291 little on drugs. 00:30:00.291 --> 00:30:00.831 So I thought 00:30:00.831 --> 00:30:01.771 a little bit of it when 00:30:01.771 --> 00:30:03.351 I was there and then 00:30:03.351 --> 00:30:03.831 I said, I don’t know, 00:30:03.831 --> 00:30:04.751 I really asked him, 00:30:04.751 --> 00:30:06.611 was there anything in 00:30:06.611 --> 00:30:07.731 this water that 00:30:07.731 --> 00:30:08.670 I drank? 00:30:08.670 --> 00:30:09.670 He laughed so, right? 00:30:09.670 --> 00:30:11.131 What water was given 00:30:11.131 --> 00:30:12.470 to me on the journey, 00:30:12.470 --> 00:30:14.550 which they gave me to drink? 00:30:15.110 --> 00:30:18.590 No, no, that is all good. 00:30:19.250 --> 00:30:20.871 Whether it was really something 00:30:20.871 --> 00:30:22.091 inside the water 00:30:22.091 --> 00:30:23.491 or if it was just Efa’s excitement, 00:30:23.491 --> 00:30:25.571 we know just as little as 00:30:25.571 --> 00:30:28.251 you do. Did he give me this strange 00:30:28.251 --> 00:30:29.611 aphrodisiac thing, 00:30:29.611 --> 00:30:31.871 that is, this drink, which 00:30:31.871 --> 00:30:33.991 is definitely alcoholic, 00:30:33.991 --> 00:30:36.030 so it is without 00:30:36.030 --> 00:30:37.710 question that there 00:30:37.710 --> 00:30:39.990 is no alcohol in it. 00:30:40.450 --> 00:30:42.111 Exactly, with any herbs and cinnamon 00:30:42.111 --> 00:30:43.251 and whatever they say 00:30:43.251 --> 00:30:44.391 then, what holds somehow 00:30:44.391 --> 00:30:45.931 so aphrodisiac- 00:30:45.931 --> 00:30:48.410 moderate is somehow. 00:30:48.790 --> 00:30:49.811 I drank it 00:30:49.811 --> 00:30:50.811 and then he took 00:30:50.811 --> 00:30:53.970 me to his room. 00:30:54.950 --> 00:30:55.831 Then we sat down in 00:30:55.831 --> 00:30:57.350 bed, I know, and then 00:30:57.350 --> 00:31:03.190 I don’t know what conversation 00:31:03.190 --> 00:31:04.530 it was. 00:31:04.530 --> 00:31:06.531 I then said, yes, that 00:31:06.531 --> 00:31:08.131 I actually had questions 00:31:08.131 --> 00:31:11.191 I told then about someone 00:31:11.191 --> 00:31:13.031 who was not mentally 00:31:13.031 --> 00:31:14.931 well and I wanted to ask 00:31:14.931 --> 00:31:16.751 there, so I thought he 00:31:16.751 --> 00:31:19.271 might have wise answers 00:31:19.271 --> 00:31:20.651 and then I actually tried 00:31:20.651 --> 00:31:21.411 a little, I noticed 00:31:21.411 --> 00:31:21.991 correctly, I have a dry 00:31:21.991 --> 00:31:22.671 mouth, I have an eye 00:31:22.671 --> 00:31:23.491 and I just try to go 00:31:23.491 --> 00:31:25.231 over, just keep talking 00:31:25.231 --> 00:31:26.371 and screaming, 00:31:26.371 --> 00:31:28.711 just skip over what 00:31:28.711 --> 00:31:30.830 this might come out. 00:31:31.350 --> 00:31:32.291 The way he interacts 00:31:32.291 --> 00:31:34.091 with us is as if 00:31:34.091 --> 00:31:35.951 we were his friends. 00:31:35.951 --> 00:31:38.091 So, so it’s not 00:31:38.091 --> 00:31:39.131 that he’s super at a distance, 00:31:39.131 --> 00:31:40.511 but he’s super, then 00:31:40.511 --> 00:31:42.491 he’s joking and 00:31:42.491 --> 00:31:44.330 so on. 00:31:44.330 --> 00:31:46.810 Funny and loose. 00:31:47.190 --> 00:31:48.830 Then he meant somehow, I 00:31:48.830 --> 00:31:51.050 mean, what did he tell me? 00:31:51.350 --> 00:31:52.131 Something in the direction of whether 00:31:52.131 --> 00:31:54.051 I want to experience spiritual 00:31:54.051 --> 00:31:55.551 expansion. 00:31:55.890 --> 00:31:57.111 And I immediately knew what 00:31:57.111 --> 00:31:58.211 it was about and then I said 00:31:58.211 --> 00:32:01.190 pretty clearly, Do you 00:32:01.270 --> 00:32:03.771 have to do this to 00:32:03.771 --> 00:32:05.490 go on spiritually? 00:32:06.330 --> 00:32:08.210 He knew what I meant by that. 00:32:08.210 --> 00:32:09.071 I also showed him 00:32:09.071 --> 00:32:11.830 a little bit of me, so 00:32:11.830 --> 00:32:13.311 suggested that I already 00:32:13.311 --> 00:32:13.930 know what I am 00:32:13.930 --> 00:32:15.570 going to do here. 00:32:15.850 --> 00:32:17.650 And then he meant something 00:32:17.650 --> 00:32:19.150 in the direction, 00:32:20.030 --> 00:32:22.791 would you want to get in there? 00:32:22.791 --> 00:32:24.531 Relax and let yourself 00:32:24.531 --> 00:32:25.870 get into it. 00:32:25.870 --> 00:32:28.190 Now we meditate together. 00:32:40.310 --> 00:32:43.451 This was In the Trap, the 00:32:43.451 --> 00:32:45.870 fifth episode of Soulfighters. 00:32:45.930 --> 00:32:48.130 The toxic tantra. 00:32:48.130 --> 00:32:49.291 You can find all the 00:32:49.291 --> 00:32:51.890 results in the ARD audiothek. 00:32:52.270 --> 00:32:54.210 If you like Soulfighter, 00:32:54.210 --> 00:32:55.851 then go subscribe, write a comment 00:32:55.851 --> 00:32:57.351 and give us a few 00:32:57.351 --> 00:32:58.971 stars. This helps 00:32:58.971 --> 00:33:00.011 others find this 00:33:00.011 --> 00:33:01.550 podcast. 00:33:02.710 --> 00:33:03.851 If you want to leave 00:33:03.851 --> 00:33:05.611 a sect yourself or 00:33:05.611 --> 00:33:06.231 help others, 00:33:06.231 --> 00:33:07.851 we have a list of 00:33:07.851 --> 00:33:09.491 counseling and help 00:33:09.491 --> 00:33:11.550 offers for you. 00:33:11.650 --> 00:33:12.851 We put the link in the 00:33:12.851 --> 00:33:14.130 show notes. 00:33:14.130 --> 00:33:15.731 There you will also find further information 00:33:15.731 --> 00:33:17.410 about this. 00:33:18.250 --> 00:33:20.371 Toxic Tantra is a podcast 00:33:20.371 --> 00:33:21.951 by me, Katja Peisen-Petersen, 00:33:21.951 --> 00:33:23.070 and Christiane 00:33:23.070 --> 00:33:24.610 Havranek. 00:33:25.290 --> 00:33:26.991 Thank you to Lea Utz and 00:33:26.991 --> 00:33:29.511 Rebecca Ciesielski and Marco Lehner 00:33:29.511 --> 00:33:31.751 and the team from the AI & 00:33:31.751 --> 00:33:33.670 Automation Lab at BR. 00:33:33.770 --> 00:33:34.871 They helped us anonymize 00:33:34.871 --> 00:33:36.911 Eva’s voice with 00:33:36.911 --> 00:33:38.890 an AI. 00:33:38.890 --> 00:33:40.990 Graphic design of Anna Hunger. 00:33:41.390 --> 00:33:43.970 Sound design by Christoph Brandner. 00:33:44.150 --> 00:33:46.530 Sound and technique Robin Ault. 00:33:46.890 --> 00:33:49.050 Directed by Ron Schickler. 00:33:49.050 --> 00:33:50.511 The author is Johannes 00:33:50.511 --> 00:33:52.950 Badaro-Willmann. 00:33:52.950 --> 00:33:54.171 Edited by Pia 00:33:54.171 --> 00:33:55.771 Dangelmayer, Till Ottlitz and 00:33:55.771 --> 00:33:57.271 Sabine Winter. 00:33:58.350 --> 00:33:59.351 Toxic Tantra is a 00:33:59.351 --> 00:34:00.951 production of the editorial 00:34:00.951 --> 00:34:02.910 religion and orientation. 00:34:03.390 --> 00:34:05.671 The investigative team BR Recherche 00:34:05.671 --> 00:34:07.871 and the BR-Story team for the 00:34:07.871 --> 00:34:10.850 Bavarian broadcaster 2024. 00:34:14.960 --> 00:34:15.921 Have you ever wondered 00:34:15.921 --> 00:34:17.301 what is going on 00:34:17.301 --> 00:34:19.320 in your head? 00:34:19.400 --> 00:34:20.781 For example, how can you 00:34:20.781 --> 00:34:22.441 learn to love yourself or 00:34:22.441 --> 00:34:23.881 what ways do you have 00:34:23.881 --> 00:34:25.880 to get to a therapy site? 00:34:26.240 --> 00:34:27.281 If you are interested 00:34:27.281 --> 00:34:28.721 in this, I have a podcast 00:34:28.721 --> 00:34:30.500 for you. 00:34:30.500 --> 00:34:32.341 I feel by Lina Larissa Strahl 00:34:32.341 --> 00:34:34.581 with The Thing from SWR. 00:34:34.581 --> 00:34:36.421 This is the new Safe Space 00:34:36.421 --> 00:34:37.601 for everyone who is 00:34:37.601 --> 00:34:39.640 interested in mental health. 00:34:40.120 --> 00:34:41.921 In Feel I, Lina does not 00:34:41.921 --> 00:34:43.561 only share her own emotional 00:34:43.561 --> 00:34:45.301 stories, but also findings from 00:34:45.301 --> 00:34:48.060 experts and exciting guests. 00:34:48.300 --> 00:34:49.581 You are not alone with your 00:34:49.581 --> 00:34:51.081 worries and fears. 00:34:51.340 --> 00:34:52.681 I feel there every Thursday 00:34:52.681 --> 00:34:54.841 in the ARD audiobook and everywhere 00:34:54.841 --> 00:34:57.020 there are podcasts.