You can find all the episodes of
this podcast in the
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Kosti will be fitting in Romania
in September 2021.
A month later, Natalie Di
Viluzza left.
She goes up with several
other young women in a
silver who drives
you, that’s just
any people from school,
so Romanians somehow.
For me, it was
actually a couple.
So it was a guy with his
girlfriend.
They were normal people,
so absolutely nice.
The mood is good.
Everyone is totally excited.
Will you really meet your guru?
And if so, what will happen?
Some other girls have
been with me.
This group dynamic had
helped not to completely erase.
Nathalie and the other
women know just so much.
Go to Paris or somewhere
nearby.
Gregoriam Bivoularou is stopping because
the authorities are wrongly
pursuing him, they think.
They go through, for two days,
without long breaks.
And then, by noon, they stop,
somewhere near Paris, at a
stinking
supermarket parking lot.
Nathalie goes out, stretches
through and watches people pushing
their shopping carts from
A to B here.
Then the next driver
comes to you.
The women get into the car
with him.
Then we are in another
car, also again a Romanian,
who drove us and he then
just gave
us these sunglasses
and these hats, so that
so distributed and
said so, yes put
them all on now.
How was this justified? Not at all.
So that’s the thing,
because there’s always
nothing justified, you
just get out of this,
so from
that idea that you can
ask, you know?
So I just did not question anything
anymore.
So never was where I said,
yes, why do we do it now?
Because you just learned, when
you asked questions at
the beginning, it is
always so, yes, you learn later,
you learn later, you don’
t understand yet, you know?
And then you just
get out of that thing,
I can ask
questions and then
you just take
them.
So Nathalie put on the sunglasses
and the fisher hat.
And you go.
About 15 years ago, another woman
experienced almost exactly
the same.
By car, by parking
somewhere near Paris.
We call her Eva.
You don’t know them
yet, but we met them
early in our research
in Munich.
She is the
soul-catcher listener from
Episode 1, who gave us the
tip with the yoga movement.
She hesitated for a while.
But then she said, okay,
I’ll be interviewed by
you, but you have to
change my voice.
We did that with Ki.
Eva tells how she and
others left the yoga
school in Munich.
From Olympia-Centrum by
car to Paris. Then when we
arrived in Paris, I was
carried like a commodity
in a parking lot from
one car to another.
Eva and Nathalie don’t know each other.
They never spoke to each other.
But their stories about
Paris are very similar.
From that moment on, I had to
put on a hat and a eyeband that
I don’t know where it’s going.
And most of all, I had to
get away from
the man I trusted there
in a different car to
someone strange.
And yet, Eva is still in.
It was a very bad moment
for me.
I was totally overtaken
and felt helpless.
Eva and Nathalie, they
both do not know
where the driver
took them.
Of course, you could see
nothing anymore.
Then we stopped in that first
house, where all the
girls who went to him
always waited.
I have made a different
decision, it is a huge house.
And there is a pool, and there
are sky beds, and everything
is of silk, and we are
all in very airy
clothes.
It’s hippie, yes, and everyone has
flowers in their hair.
I know we arrived in the
underground garage.
It was a classic Paris
high-rise complex.
In an elevator we are
riding up straight, very
high floor.
I had to give up my cell
phone at the entrance.
No one is forcing them to leave
their phones in the apartment.
But they will be advised.
Electric devices are
bad for vibrations.
They are all wrapped
in alufolia.
That they cannot
be ordered or whatever.
Nathalie and Eva also give away
their wallets.
and their passports.
I was in this apartment, I wanted
to immediately get out backwards.
Everything in me was up, no,
it doesn’t work.
I have to leave here immediately.
I really had such
a panic attack.
This is Soulfanger, Toxic
Tantra, a podcast by Christiane
Havranek and me Katja
Peisen-Petersen.
Episode 5, in the case when
Eva comes into the apartment,
then she looks mostly much naked
It was all full of women, about
which many women.
They are waiting for a meeting
with their guru.
It was completely dark,
I know.
They had a lot
of windows.
So that no one can
see, I know.
I went in all directions, but
in the directions
where other houses could
have had insight.
They only saw half-
sized women.
There are a couple of girls,
five or six, who live there.
They organize it all.
The old rabbits, a little bit,
which did not give us
so much attention.
I think they didn’t think it
was so much of a bit of a bit
that all these young skirts
were there.
Old rabbits, old women.
All the women.
The men just carried us
and went there.
These women, these are the
assistants, they cook, they make
the announcement and also show
them the apartment.
Eva gives us the basic drawing.
So let’s do so now.
So it almost went in and
then there was the kitchen,
a large bedroom.
Evers descriptions are similar to those
of Nathalie.
So, and then a little
further out was the
small bedroom.
Maybe 75 square meters or
something.
Yes, come to go.
And there were, how many were we?
We had to put the mattresses
up on the walls in the day to
make room for us, and
then down again.
There are usually 10 people
going through, who
stop coming, see him
and then go home.
And then you stop there.
So there you then
sleep in a room with several
other girls.
So closed with so many
people and so that was
simply the danger of it.
Boah, I could hardly
athlete there.
And that was so dirty, that was
so disgusting, and that was so
tight, and that
was so anything other than
spiritual and sacred, and
beautiful and elevating. Then you wait
for the waiting area to meet
with her Guru.
But Bivolaru is not there.
He lives in a completely different place.
Only a handful of people know it.
The women are brought to him
individually or in small groups.
How long you will have to wait
for this moment,
you do not know.
What did you do all day?
So yoga or you read or
watch porn for hours.
So any porn he has chosen,
where he says the women
in these films have somehow
a very great state of shakti,
so are just as he likes
to think that and that we
have to give ourselves
a stop for hours
and that is all these movies,
which we get
as a gift.
I remember such a
strange ritual
we did.
Well, there was one, that
fell so, then somehow
one lay naked and we were
allowed
to touch them and
then, I don’t know what
the meaning
of the whole was.
Probably just a sexual,
half-generating
bandage for the guru
to be totally uplifted.
I do not know.
And I somehow touched them
with feathers or something
on them and made such
a thing.
A little like a sexual
teasing, that was
a bit.
Eva still asks herself today
how she has landed
in this apartment?
Her experiences were about 15 years
ago, she is now living a completely
different life.
She has family, children.
She has hardly told anyone
what happened in
Paris.
It seems to be difficult for her.
So I am, I am a educated,
intelligent
woman.
How can this actually
happen to me?
How can I get so involved
and participate in
all this?
How stupid.
And at the same time, I
now know how much manipulation
was behind it.
So, how they are
manipulating.
We will learn more about
how this can happen
to one later from a psychotherapist.
But just before this dynamic, Eva
wants to warn that
others are drawn into the same
way as her.
Young women especially.
She also started harmlessly when
she took yoga classes at
the German Academy
for Traditional Yoga, shortly
Dati, in Munich.
She is in the early 20s, a student.
And that’s a bit of the
promise, I’ve
at least read out, that you will
experience a sacred
sexuality with
it, that is, a divine one,
a connection
to the divine one.
So through the sexual act
you manage to
move a divine sphere
you, so.
And I found this extremely fascinating
because I was just an extreme
seeking person in
terms of sexuality.
What I was looking for was
closeness, love and
connection.
And somehow the idea
was there, maybe I’
ll learn to connect
and unite that.
So so.
So somehow good, healthy,
holy sexuality.
And that’s why Eva is not only
doing classical yoga, but soon
also a Tantra
Yoga course at Dati.
Everyone was happy,
warm, charged.
This is the same as the
yoga community,
that is like a
hippie-happy family.
Everyone has a lot of love,
insanely much physical contact, hugs,
closeness.
Of course, it was something
very warm.
We meet with Eva in the evening
in the city centre of Munich.
We sit on a mat on the isophone,
talk, and Eva spontaneously
introduces us to some yoga
exercises she learned
at school at the
time.
There is a way to stimulate
the sexual chakra.
I then felt things.
I really felt like
a storage of my
sexual energy.
Or I still know, once in
yoga lessons I didn’t go
well and then I did the
Kotra, so that opens your
heart chakra and I started
crying for it and
that’s so experiences
that then sum up and
then starts that
depends on you or
that I believed then.
by Krass.
See, it is true, it must happen.
Eva is doing more yoga, more
and more tantra,
and learning about interesting
rituals.
Then there are all these
cleaning rituals, what
to brush your teeth with and
how you feel your stomach.
I always thought I would
definitely swallow the water
down and then
do this strange rolling
exercise and then get
it all out again so you’
re cleaned up.
To be a shit or what?
They feel that, of course, if
they do this often,
not as a drizzle, because
it is just such a cleansing ritual
and I found it so, I told
them, so today it is
so unnatural, I find
it very strange, honestly.
But then there is such
a small point in me that
so wants to hide,
maybe that’s all true.
Maybe there is one real
and now be not so cynical,
now let yourself somehow
buy in and maybe you
discover something else,
maybe you are surprised."
Evans gradually
got into
it.
What attracts her most is the prospect
of sexual fulfillment.
She even begins an affair with
her Tantra teacher, which begins
harmlessly, but the teacher
knows Gregorian Bivoularou,
Greig personally.
And at some point he says,
remembering Eva, he can
arrange a meeting between
her and Greig.
If one is leading
such a community and everyone
is so encouraged and so
cast, that
was the idea of a
wise Buddha resting
within.
I thought I would meet
a super-wise man
who could ask me anything
and answer me almost
anything.
All the questions I have.
Before that, I want Eva to
take a picture of her.
She doesn’t remember it
exactly, but she
thinks it was naked.
Or just underwear.
Greig, you know, can
read your aura.
I said I am not
mistaken for whom.
So I’m stupid, we discussed
that in this
Jova group.
With a few other people, girls.
No, we do not do that.
Then the yoga teachers
laughed, he really
didn’t need it, so
really seriously.
And at some point, this was the point,
I think a few weeks later, such
an offer was thrown back
into the room.
Oh fuck it, why not, ey?
What happens, it does not
matter.
And I said, yes, Mei, let’
s try it out, let’s see if there’
s something going on
with it.
So Eva gives her Tantra
teacher a picture of herself.
He isly suffering from Grigorian
Bivolaru.
He then sent me the
happy message that I
had an invitation.
I know exactly the feeling.
It was such a total shock.
I honestly had a
vague idea of what
it was.
I have already thought about
Tantra invitation, Guru-snooping, since
there is 100% and so an initiation.
Initiation, again that word.
Eva tries to extract some
more information from
her Tantra teaching
about this meeting.
Yes, and what is
that perverted than there is not,
because always so completely
with his yogic, loving
face expression, that you will see,
that is pretty and there
are so many young girls, that
is so beautiful, you are all there
And that is a
beautiful community.
A mediation to her guru through
a Tantra teacher from
the German Academy of Traditional
Yoga.
That is how Eva remembers.
What do the data say about it?
We will ask you in detail.
But now back to the apartment
in Paris.
Eva is still waiting
to be left to her Guru.
I was scared at the
same time.
But this curiosity and then
a crisp feeling, now you
are here, now you are here, now you
are here, now let it come
to pass, now look at
it, maybe there is really
a great enlightenment
waiting for you.
Eva and later Nathalie will
wait for this
enlightenment for days.
The other women are ahead
of you. It was really
hard for me because
you stop coming and then
you tell where you want
to go home.
And I had given a certain
date, which, of
course, did not interest
anyone afterwards.
Then I stood there and
didn’t know...
Because you have
no control at all.
So when you can go
home, when you meet him,
you just don’t know.
So, it is completely his thing.
That was difficult.
Because I was like that,
what if I was here forever?
How long did you
wait until your visit?
Two weeks.
I then said after two or
three days that I can’t
stay so long and then maybe
the next day came the explanation.
You probably told him that
there is someone there
who has to go back now.
So there was just a
note that came and then
there was the next
name on it.
What were the feelings
when the invitation came?
Oh God.
I just believe that, oh God.
And then all these little
discussions came, what
happened?
And he said a little
bit, exactly what you
want and said, yes,
I can just go and talk
to that.
And there he always hanged
like that, yes, you have everything
you want, that will go well, everything
will be fine and it will
now collect exactly
what you want.
I was just somehow doing yoga
again and then just a
girl there and meant by the
motto yes you are going
to him now, you have
to pack your things
and so on.
And then it said yes,
when my bath came like
this, now please go shower
and shave and
I said why I should
shower and how I should
shave, I never shave.
So completely raso, who talk
about completely raso, not
so ne, I don’t actually do that,
yes that’s just for
respect for him.
I see why, he is not
naked to why
should I, do it simply
and yes, you can decide
everything then freely,
but that
is almost not bad now
and then somehow came
in, two girls come, make
it easy, that is not
so wild and then I
actually did it.
She felt that
full doctor, which I found
completely awful.
Nathalie and Eva, both taken
by two men in a van, they
tell.
Eva is alone, with Nathalie
still women go with.
Their eyes are connected
again.
Again, they don’t know where
to take them.
I mean, it was like
that, I was my one before,
I was in the car, so
I was really
done somehow.
So fear, but then, I then
stopped thinking so after
that is now,
because I’m excited
because it’s my guru
and so on.
So that was now, when
I thought about
it, when I looked back,
that was what I did.
So a little like that,
okay, it’s my guru, it’
s my guru, it’
s my guru, not to be afraid,
not to be afraid.
Oh God, what was it, so
what was it that happened?
Someday the car stops.
Judging by the smell and
the noise, Nathalie
thinks they are in a
underground garage.
And then we were also taken out
of the car, out of the
underground garage to such
a staircase, which
then stops going up
somehow into the garden.
This is also where
we have just taken
the eye.
Nathalie is in the back yard
of an apartment complex.
Here Bivoularo appears to be staying, in
an apartment on the ground floor.
Eva recalls another place.
She is writing it for us.
It was a kind of back yard.
It was much less urban.
It was such a suburb.
There was his door.
It went so high.
The two men who brought Natalie
come to the house and
push against the door of the apartment.
It is difficult to open.
This is really tight.
So really a little like that,
you open the door like
that and then you have
to get stuck in some way.
And then you stop in
this corridor, because you
stop, there is no place
for you.
It was completely
dark, I know.
One of the two Romanians
knocks on a room door.
It takes several minutes.
Then it will be opened.
And he stands there.
When he opened the door, I
still know how he stood there.
What was he wearing? A bathing suit.
He always wore that,
his coat.
Lila, and somehow Deden.
So very fancy.
So I had thought, when
I saw him, oh my God,
this old, unattractive
man, there I must now
go, who radiates for me nothing
but not the breath
of anything wise or good.
Alone, as he greeted me, He
had such a smile on his
face and I was so nervous
and then somehow seemingly
laughed and then he, I still
know, opened his arms
and said something in a
way like, ah, such a beautiful
smile, you're smiling.
He is as big as me.
Okay is.
Yes, it is not so big.
It is really old, no.
So that was also such a thing.
I didn’t really
expect it
to look so old.
already is.
Really such an old man.
Oh, such a beautiful smile,
you’re smiling.
And I
even thought at that moment,
oh my God, if you were
really a wise guru, you would
know that I am not laughing
joyfully, but doing something
like that, if you had any
plan or could read
any aura or so, you would
know that I am just
actually just wanting
to die of fear.
No fear, no fear,
so is it.
That was the same thing
when I saw him for
the first time.
So it was also so, okay,
yes, it’s my guru, it’s my
guru, yay.
Yes, so it was really, really difficult.
But even there again, it’s just that pressure
that’s being so inflated
into you, so this
is your guru and this is
now a mega event, change
your life here right now.
You can interpret everything
that happens
to you through
this filter.
You know where the fear you feel
is excitement. Somehow and
it’s so positive and
it’s just so great
if it’s actually
your body.
What the fuck are we doing?
He begged me and then I
was then That was
the next thing, then
I thought, oh my God, now
I am there.
I don’t know where I am, I don’
t have money, I don’t have a cell phone.
I don’t know when these
guys will come over us.
How do they know when they
will pick me up?
Super is crash.
At this point, the
women’s memories
differ a little.
While Eva stands before
her guru and he mockes her,
Bivoularo disappears with
Nathalie back in his bedroom.
The men who brought her
and the two other women
here now lead
her down the corridor
to another room.
It is obscured.
A roll is attached in front of
the window, white.
No one can look out and no one
can enter, Nathalie remembers.
Our room, where the girls
are, is completely closed.
Everywhere, so really, I’ve
never seen it, everywhere
with tents, with all sorts
of rules.
What we can do, how we can
do it, what we cannot do
and so, so strictly, so
there is something right
going on.
And that we have to be super
quiet, that with the bathroom,
that we have to be really
super, super clean.
There is a three-
story bed for the women.
The bathroom they share with
Bivularo, who has his room
right next to it.
You never see him going
in, but you see his hair lying
in the washing pool.
If he just pulled one
hair, it didn’t go.
If his hair was dry,
it was no problem.
My hair does not go.
We also did not wash
our hair.
Because there, I think,
the problem was, if something is clogged,
you can’t call a clamper.
One of the men who brought Nathalie
sits at a small
foldable table near the
door of the apartment.
There are several metal
bars attached to it,
Nathalie remembers.
We can’t get out and
then you’ll get your
clothes taken off.
So they have bathing
items and so on, but
we don’t have our
clothes and that’s why
it’s so, okay, I
can’t really go out because
I don’t have anything
to wear.
And even if we had said I want
to go, that would not have
just gone so by the motto,
okay, yes, of course, we
are not going home now.
That would have been
a huge discussion, so after you
have any demons and what’
s going on with you?
It does not go.
This is not a topic at all.
For Natalia, there is only
one solution.
She stays with the other
women in the room assigned to her.
hours of hours.
for days. Your food is delivered
in plastic bottles.
prepared by the
other woman.
A lot of Romanian food because
he likes it.
Naturally a vegetarian.
And then it was the thing, if something
goes wrong, we have to
eat it anyway.
They chose to stop, and
then they ate that outdated meal.
As I have
always said, I just
don’t do it.
So you can do it alone.
They were then,
boah, I have got a crazy
spiritual state and it’
s all so great because
it’s so charged with
its energy and so
on. You will make the world
beautiful too.
That you do not shut up.
Because everything is darkened in
her room, Natalie
loses her sense of time at
some point.
No sunlight is there, right? Not at all.
You cannot go out, no
sunlight, you stay in your
room, you are quiet.
And then you just sit there.
You do your yoga, read something,
sleep.
Nathalie has been out for seven days.
Then the door opens.
Gregorian Bivoularo is
very personally standing there and
looking at Nathalie.
He then stopped coming in
at some point and then meant,
yes, you can prepare now.
Nathalie takes a shower, shaves,
brushes her teeth.
She follows the instructions
on the many tents on the
walls in her room.
She is excited and waiting
for her guru’s call.
But then it was also
that he did not come
back for two days.
What? Oh no.
I thought it would
take an hour before
he came back, no.
Almost two days.
Where he simply did
not come back.
And then he stopped at some point.
So it was, okay, now
it is. Nine days.
So long Gregoriam Bivularo
lets Natalie wait in this
apartment.
So she remembers.
Eva is faster.
She is taken to him alone.
And she is on her turn immediately.
What was even more
rough, on the
way there I got a
drink.
I put them in the water.
I drank a lot
of it on the road.
I then have
this strange, this
strange light a little
bit like I was a
little on drugs.
So I thought
a little bit of it when
I was there and then
I said, I don’t know,
I really asked him,
was there anything in
this water that
I drank?
He laughed so, right?
What water was given
to me on the journey,
which they gave me to drink?
No, no, that is all good.
Whether it was really something
inside the water
or if it was just Efa’s excitement,
we know just as little as
you do. Did he give me this strange
aphrodisiac thing,
that is, this drink, which
is definitely alcoholic,
so it is without
question that there
is no alcohol in it.
Exactly, with any herbs and cinnamon
and whatever they say
then, what holds somehow
so aphrodisiac-
moderate is somehow.
I drank it
and then he took
me to his room.
Then we sat down in
bed, I know, and then
I don’t know what conversation
it was.
I then said, yes, that
I actually had questions
I told then about someone
who was not mentally
well and I wanted to ask
there, so I thought he
might have wise answers
and then I actually tried
a little, I noticed
correctly, I have a dry
mouth, I have an eye
and I just try to go
over, just keep talking
and screaming,
just skip over what
this might come out.
The way he interacts
with us is as if
we were his friends.
So, so it’s not
that he’s super at a distance,
but he’s super, then
he’s joking and
so on.
Funny and loose.
Then he meant somehow, I
mean, what did he tell me?
Something in the direction of whether
I want to experience spiritual
expansion.
And I immediately knew what
it was about and then I said
pretty clearly, Do you
have to do this to
go on spiritually?
He knew what I meant by that.
I also showed him
a little bit of me, so
suggested that I already
know what I am
going to do here.
And then he meant something
in the direction,
would you want to get in there?
Relax and let yourself
get into it.
Now we meditate together.
This was In the Trap, the
fifth episode of Soulfighters.
The toxic tantra.
You can find all the
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There you will also find further information
about this.
Toxic Tantra is a podcast
by me, Katja Peisen-Petersen,
and Christiane
Havranek.
Thank you to Lea Utz and
Rebecca Ciesielski and Marco Lehner
and the team from the AI &
Automation Lab at BR.
They helped us anonymize
Eva’s voice with
an AI.
Graphic design of Anna Hunger.
Sound design by Christoph Brandner.
Sound and technique Robin Ault.
Directed by Ron Schickler.
The author is Johannes
Badaro-Willmann.
Edited by Pia
Dangelmayer, Till Ottlitz and
Sabine Winter.
Toxic Tantra is a
production of the editorial
religion and orientation.
The investigative team BR Recherche
and the BR-Story team for the
Bavarian broadcaster 2024.
Have you ever wondered
what is going on
in your head?
For example, how can you
learn to love yourself or
what ways do you have
to get to a therapy site?
If you are interested
in this, I have a podcast
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I feel by Lina Larissa Strahl
with The Thing from SWR.
This is the new Safe Space
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In Feel I, Lina does not
only share her own emotional
stories, but also findings from
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You are not alone with your
worries and fears.
I feel there every Thursday
in the ARD audiobook and everywhere
there are podcasts.